Are you telling me how to do it!?

So it is possible after all? Combining the work of filmmaker with something else? 

“It’s not always an easy combination,” Stefan admits right away, “but when one of us is abroad for a production, the other one takes over the lessons. It’s great that BUas facilitates that.” “And of course, it works both ways,” adds Koen, “because we both still make films and documentaries, we bring relevant and up-to-date practical experience to the lessons.”  

Stefan Egberts is a programme maker, concept developer, director, reporter, editor and producer. He studied Journalism at Utrecht University of Applied Sciences. With his company Heeteevee, Stefan has developed  and produced programmes for, among others, BNN-VARA, RTL, NCRV, IDTV and VPRO since 2002. You could know him from ‘Ruilen – van konijn naar een fortuin’ (‘Swapping – from Rabbit to Fortune’), in which  together with Albert Klein Haneveld he investigates whether you can make a fortune from nothing by swapping things again and again.  

Koen Suidgeest is a documentary maker, photographer, and was also an urban photographer in the city of Leiden. He studied at the University for the Creative Arts in the UK. Koen started his career by ‘shooting’ and producing fiction. Since 2002, he has made documentaries highlighting socially relevant themes such as identity, poverty and the life of people on the edges of society. His latest documentary is called M/F/X, in which openness, inclusivity, dignity, and recognition are central.  

What do you enjoy most, filmmaking or teaching? 

Stefan: “Oh dear, do we have to choose?!” 

Koen: “I do the same in both jobs; being meaningful to society. I want to make a difference.” 

Stefan: “And yet, it is not the same, I mean, when you’re teaching, you should be able to explain how to tackle things and why. You should be able to describe things. Firstly, I thought: I know how to do things, and that is what I’m going to tell them. But it doesn’t work like that, I do a lot intuitively, just explain that to them. I only started to really enjoy it when a student on placement was going to interfere in my dealings. Are you going to tell me how to do it!? And do you know what, I enjoyed it! It gives energy to work with young people who are coming up with fresh ideas.” 

Koen: “Exactly! We have the experience, but the trick is to let students come up with ideas themselves. We don’t impose anything on them; they are free to do as they please. We gradually confront them with things they haven’t thought about yet.”  

You have both made quite a few productions. What are you most proud of and why? 

Koen: “I make documentaries in the lhbtqia+ context, among other things. They are commissioned by social organisations and for educational purposes. They are used, for example, internationally by police academies to teach students about gay rights. I want to make a positive difference, and I can do that with these documentaries. The great thing is that this allows me to bring a bit of social relevance to my lessons at BUas.” 

Stefan: “Do you ask your students actively to do that too, highlight a social theme?” 

Koen: “Of course, I don’t oblige students to do that, but I do show them that they can use a film or documentary very effectively to raise an issue. And it doesn’t have to be something that will change the world; they can look closer to home. I currently have a student who is making a film about a Bulgarian minority group. She’s from Bulgaria herself and came up with the idea for a documentary in which she interviews her grandmother. That’s quite exciting, of course. And I help her by asking questions, for example about the ethical aspects. In this way, I try to get students thinking.” 

Stefan: “Honestly, I don’t know what I’m most proud of... . “ 

Koen: “’Man bijt hond’! Great programme.” 

Stefan: “I did indeed collaborate on that, but we are not going to talk about that. No, I always come back to the rabbit. That’s what most people know me for. The rabbit is an adventure I worked on for six years. It actually started as a joke. Could you build a fortune from nothing by constantly swapping things? A friend and I decided to try it out. We were given a rabbit for free via Marktplaats, swapped it for something a bit more valuable and so on. A documentary resulted from that. It’s actually a good example of concept thinking, which is what I try to teach my students.” 

Koen: “It’s also a powerful indictment of capitalism, which really appeals to me. Very clever how you built up the concept, first with a few short videos, then a documentary, and now a theatre show!” 

Stefan: “That’s what I’m most proud of perhaps, that theatre experience! I was used to being behind the camera, not on stage. But I really enjoyed getting an immediate reaction from the audience. It’s easy to say. I represented ‘friendship’ and my co-star represented ‘capitalism’. So you can guess who got booed off the stage.”  

It does make for some great stories. It is wonderful that you can share them with the students. How about putting out a call for alumni? For a guest lecture? I am sure they have a lot to share as well. 

Stefan: “Hmm, we want to move away from the concept of guest lectures a bit, which still feels a bit like lecturing. We have already tried a few different formats. Something more informal, a campfire on a screen, where a few people share their experiences with students, lecturers and graduates.” 

Koen: “Stefan did so once, which was really fun; something like ‘Zomergasten’ with an audience. A cameraman, who had been in the business for a while, told his story and an extremely expensive camera was passed from hand to hand. Yeah, sure, pass it on to the back!” 

Stefan: “It doesn’t have to be that exciting, but I do see it as my job to bring students and industry together. So if you have a great story to tell, be sure to come back to the campus in Breda!” 

Interview: Maaike Dukker-‘t Hart